In April 2009 The Pajama Men came to Melbourne for the first time, bringing their show Verses vs Verses to The Melbourne Comedy Festival, to be performed in a draughty, noisy tent in the middle of Town Square. Then they won the Barry.
I did skip a bit there; rave reviews; rampant word of mouth; sell out audiences; extra shows added; stuff like that, then they won the Barry. The Pajama Men (aka Shenoah Allen and Mark Chavez) are about to return to our shores and I was well chuffed to have a chance to catch up with Mark.
How did you meet? What made you start working together?
Shenoah and I met in high school auditioning for an improv troupe that would go on to have only one performance at the Officers’ Wives Club club at Kirtland Air Force Base here in Albuquerque. Quite possibly one of the strangest and most tense shows we’ve ever been involved in. A certain cast member started playing a shell-shocked Vietnam vet in one scene, and it didn’t go over very well.
Shenoah and I became friends after that, but didn’t seriously work together again until he convinced me to audition for yet another improv company. That one lasted awhile longer and it was during those years of practicing long form improv that we really began to understand our chemistry. The rest of the company called us the molecule brothers because when one of us was in a scene the other would shortly follow. It was difficult for us to not work together.
So we began performing together, the two of us and a musician, doing fifteen minutes or so at a late night variety show. It was there that we began to develop our style.
I know you must have been asked this a thousand times, but I still wanna know. Where did the conceit of the pajama theme come from?
We decided to take our act on the road and booked ourselves in four fringe festivals across Canada. Up until that point we hadn’t ever discussed a costume. We play many characters each but we don’t use props or change clothes during the show so knew that we wanted something that was neutral enough that it would read as a sort of blank canvas. We also jumped around quite a bit so we needed something comfortable with plenty of give. Shenaoh suggested spandex because he had just been studying at Del ‘Arte in northern California and was interested in the line and contours of the body. I was way too self-conscious at the time to go for that. Though we’ve recently taken up surfing and now I’m kind of interested in changing our look to wetsuits. Anybody can look like a super hero in a wetsuit. Anyway, I don’t remember how we arrived on pajamas, but they seemed to work.
You have worked together for many years. How do you keep your relationships, both personal and professional, fresh? Do you guys share a sense of humour?
We do spend a ton of time together, especially when we’re on the road. During that time we very rarely speak to each other in our regular voices. In fact Shenoah just now called me to ask me a couple of questions and he it did it entirely in rap. I don’t freestyle as well as he does so I just have to answer his questions like an exaggerated businessman who is nonplussed by this rapping man’s agenda, but, you know, the businessman still wants to help out. Yeah, I’d say we definitely share a sense of humour, at least we’ve been trying to build a career off that idea for the last few years.
You say on your website that you are “often called indescribable”. This is ridiculous notion of course because critics all over the world, including myself, have described you. How would you describe yourselves?
I think that our website should say “often described, but usually it makes the show sound kind of stupid”. Not that you made our show sound stupid! I’m digging myself into a hole here. When we were first starting and even now, critics would often struggle for a basis of comparison, as is normal when trying to describe something to somebody (music, or a film, or a treehouse) so they’d settle on saying what we aren’t – “Not quite improv, not quite sketch, not stand-up” – or would just give a play by play of the show. But really, I find it very difficult to explain to somebody what we do. It usually goes something like this:
Friend of a friend: “What do you do Mark?”
Mark: “I do comedy”
Friend of a friend: “Oh like stand-up?”
Mark: “No, I work with another guy, we do a whole bunch of characters, sort-of weave them in and out of a story-line, but the plot really isn’t the point of the show you know? It’s more about setting up expectations and breaking them, but I guess I’m describing comedy as a whole now aren’t I?”
Friend of a friend: ”...”
You both have a history of involvement in the proper theatre. Do you consider yourself actors or comedians? Does the delineation matter?
I always struggle when I’m crossing a border and have to fill out the “Occupation” question on the little card. Typically I write ‘actor’ because maybe, just maybe, the immigration guy is also a booking agent and needs my type for a new high-paying television show. I felt weird the times I’ve written “comedian” because that suggests stand-up and I haven’t logged nearly enough hours as a stand-up to deserve that title. Plus every time I’ve written “comedian” or told somebody I do comedy at the border I’m asked to tell a joke. I’ve written “performer” a couple of times because I think that covers most of the bases, but that consequently makes me seem like a performance artist, which is fine I suppose but isn’t exactly truthful. I should just write “actor, director, comedian, writer” so I seem like a real renaissance man, and just stand there looking very smug and pleased with myself as they read through all of the amazing occupations I have.
You are the first and only independent act represented by Chicago’s Second City, the theatre that launched the careers of such comic greats as John Belushi, Mike Myers, Bill Murray and Gilda Radner. What does this opportunity mean for you in practical terms?
The people at The Second City have been extremly supportive of us for many years. We do have a curious relationship with them as most folks typically work in their touring companies and go on to perform on one of their mainstages. This had been a dream of mine since I was young, but by the time Kelly Leonard (vice president of Second City) approached us, Shenoah and I were interested in keeping our own show going. So they took us under their wing so to speak, helping us market ourselves a little better (they had the bright idea to call us the Pajama Men, considering we were already wearing the pjs). They’ve produced our shows in Chicago and Toronto and most recently we’ve been working with their TV development people in Los Angeles. We love the The Second City, their going to celebrate their 50 year anniversary this december, here’s to 50 more.
You’ve gigged in festivals all around the world? Does comedy change from place to place? Do audiences differ?
They do. There are very obvious differences that can be dealt with before performing in front of new place. For example in the U.S. we say “crossing guards” and in the U.K. they say “lollypop men” which, of course, sounds ridiculous to us. I think you all say “lollypop ladies” because your crossing guards are typically women. Anyway, Shenoah has a joke where he references these lollypop people, but the line was tanking until somebody clued us in. Now we go through the show and ask a local about certain words that might create an obvious colloquial problem.
But then there is a different thing that happens from place to place, specifically country to country that we have trouble putting a fine point on. If we’re performing in the States for awhile then go to, let’s say Canada, a certain shift in timing occurs. And it takes us a little while to get into the rhythms of that particular country.
Your Melbourne debut saw you win the top prize at the comedy festival. How did you find your Melbourne experience?
We performed in the Bosco Theatre, a 100-year-old Dutch circus and theatre tent. It’s a beautiful venue, but the sound proofing technology a hundred years ago wasn’t what it is now. So it was bit of a battle competing with the cacophony of the trams, the crowds, and most notably, the evangelical preacher who stationed himself right outside the tent and screamed about the Lord. But we got used to it, and I think, became a little bit better at what we do as a result.
When we got the nomination we were both very excited, but thought that the chances of winning were pretty slim, the line-up was so strong. It was incredible to win. As Brendon Burns would say, I cried like a man.
Can Melbournians expect to see you in next year’s festival and if so, what can they expect to see?
Yes! We will be returning to the MICF next year with our new show The Last Stand to Reason. We debuted this show at the Edinburgh Fringe this year and we’re very excited to bring out to Melbourne. Keep your eyes peeled!
The Pajama Men will be performing Verses Vs Verses at The Virgin Mobile Metro Theatre, 624, George St, Sydeny, 7:30pm and 9.30pm, Full $35 Conc $29, Bookings: www.factorytheatre.com.au,(02)9550 3666. They will also be performing in The ABC of Money Money Money in both Sydney (Nov 1) and Melbourne (Oct 22). See our Gig Guide for full details. For more info on The Pajama Men you can check out their website
Many thanks To Mark Chavez.