As I sit in my house trying to write the intro to this interview, there’s a television programme playing in the background which keeps piercing my consciousness. It’s some show that is trying to catalogue the world’s sexiest people. Seeing Brad Pitt, Elle Macpherson and Beyonce wheeled out in front of me as though I should admire…or even care about…them presents me with a notion. If you’re like me, attraction to another human being, no matter how remote, is based on more than great abs, pretty smiles or even lingerie lines. If you’re like me, you’re drawn to people able to cut through standard notions of “pretty” and speak the truth, in a way that is as attractive as it is challenging. If you’re like me, admiration is based on recognising someone who can enunciate ideas and bare truth in a pervasive and accessible manner. This is why I was so excited at getting this opportunity to interview Stewart Lee. He makes my brain cum.
Stewart Lee is one of the most internationally respected comedians currently working the circuit. His career as a stand up comedian, journalist, director and author displays his ability to not only traverse a variety of fields, but his allegiance to integrity and the pursuit of excellence.
Stewart got into comedy at an early age. “I always wanted to be a writer, and a comedy writer,” he says. “The moment I wanted to be a stand up was watching Ted Chippington support The Fall in a club in Birmingham when I was 16/15. There wasn’t really any alternative comedy outside London then, and the only place you saw cool stand up was supporting punk bands. I saw Peter Richardson supporting Dexy’s Midnight Runners in 1982, and Phil Jupitas opening for Billy Bragg many times, but Ted was the one that made me want to do stand up. He told the same joke 20 times to mass indifference, scowling and drinking. It was the most PUNK ROCK thing I ever saw.”
Stewart came to prominence in the UK primarily through television work alongside Richard Herring, with creations such as “Fist of Fun” and “This Morning with Richard Not Judy”. Recent years have seen Stewart appear primarily on stage. “Stage is better because your stuff won’t be ruined afterwards by TV people”, he says, “and so you stand or fall by your own mistakes, not other people’s. That said, if only I could get total control on TV there’s things I’d like to use the resources to try.”
Religious themes, notably Judeo-Christian themes, have played a large part in Stewart’s work; from skits he did with Richard Herring, to inciting the wrath of Christians with “Jerry Springer the Opera”, to a grail chase in his novel “The Perfect Fool” and his recently announced plans to defend Judas on stage in his new project “What Would Judas Do?” I asked Stewart, a self confessed atheist, where his fascination with this subject comes from. “Well, the x-ain [Christian] myths are the ethical, social, artistic cornerstones of Western culture”, he says, “so it seems to me they’re a pretty good start point for looking at almost anything.” Stewart’s recent show, “90’s Comedian”, focuses on the Christian backlash to “Jerry Springer the Opera”. The protests from Christian groups were both extensive and vociferous. Stewart and co-creator Richard Thomas received legal threats along with death threats. They also took away the dubious honour of creating something which earned a record number of protests logged by the BBC when the network announced plans to televise it. Even though the development process for “Jerry Springer the Opera” took a number of years, Stewart says the reaction was largely unexpected. “We never anticipated it until it suddenly happened. Everyone loved the show, even x-ians in the cast, and we’d had good reviews in Church Times and Catholic Herald. The anti-show campaign was a cynical attempt to profile-raise by various right-wing x-ian pressure groups who either deliberately misunderstood it or were thick as shit.”
Stewart has directed both within a comedy context and, notably, on “Jerry Springer the Opera”. The rigours of dealing with a theatrically oriented piece such as ‘Springer’ had different challenges from directing himself in the stand up context. “Springer was very hard”, says Stewart, “but I had massive help from choreographers, musical directors, assistant directors…I don’t know what I did really. I am glad I didn’t win the Director’s Olivier award I was nominated for. Stand-up is about being yourself, but”, he adds, referring to ” What Would Judas Do?”, “the new solo piece is sort of acting, so Wil Adamsdale is helping me act.”
“Jerry Springer the Opera” was critically acclaimed, commercially successful, and won several major awards, with Stewart himself being nominated for an Olivier Award for Best Director. I asked Stewart if this success was soured by the ugliness that ensued. “Yes, absolutely”, he says. “On a basic level, it meant we never really broke even, or saw much money for it, as it was effectively closed down. Secondly, it has made me think there’s no point trying to do anything any good on a mass-level, as cunts will sabotage it. Also, though I am proud of my contribution, I am now sick to death of talking about the thing, which is ruined for ever for me.”
Stewart has had a consistent presence in festivals, particularly Edinburgh. “Edinburgh is the best arts festival in the world” he states when I ask him about the importance of these events for comedians, “and the trade of influences, information, skills, inspiration etc is second to none.” He adds the point that “Montreal is a kind of trade fair where flair is punished and marketable mediocrity is rewarded.”
Stewart’s execution of comedy smacks of sublime craftsmanship but also of great artistry. I asked him if comedy can straddle both forms and he said yes. Stewart’s is an art which relies on more than just gags, relishing in ideas and journeys. A passage in his novel “The Perfect Fool”, a dialogue delivered by a character who is a recipient of the Native American Clown tradition, speaks directly to Stewart’s on stage work:
“The Hopi clown is not like a comedian or rodeo circus performer. He is a Perfect Fool, showing the people that man can never be perfect. He teaches us how man clowns his way through life, and hopes that this knowledge will lead man to some sense of right. He opens a door into a greater reality than the ebb and flow of everyday life.”
This is not a new idea. The great comedians of history are little removed from the great shamans. Often they’re the same person. The shaman, historically, is the spiritual leader of a community who addresses the void between the natural world and an elevated consciousness, but does so without ascribing to a specific theology. Comedy, at its best, straddles the dark abyss that typifies the complexity of the human condition and addresses this conflict. I suggested to Stewart that modern culture devalues the place of the comedian. “I just went and saw a clown ritual at Taos Pueblo, one of the few whitey’s allowed into [it], and finally experiencing it was extremely important to me”, he says. “Modern culture doesn’t so much devalue the role of the comedian… comedians have done it to themselves. What are you? Inheritors of the shaman-clown tradition, or people that sell beer and shoes?”
Stewart’s name is one which consistently features on other comedian’s lists of influences. I was curious about the people he looks up to. “Well, Ted Chippington, Jerry Sadowitz, Arthur Smith, Kevin MacAleer, were the people that first inspired me as a stand up and they’re all still great today. Amongst my contemporaries I love Simon Munnery and Harry Hill. And from the new generation I like Josie Long, Daniel Kitson, Stephen Carlin.”
“90’s Comedian” is the second example of Stewart’s live stand up work made available on DVD and was a show that Stewart premiered in late 2005. “It was a response to complaints about the Opera”, says Stewart. “I thought it seemed stupid to say that certain subjects were in of themselves offensive. Also, people said it [Jerry Springer the Opera] has set out to be blasphemous, which it hadn’t. I wondered if you could set out to write the most offensive, blasphemous thing you could think of, and then phrase and perform it in such a way as it became moving and thoughtful and beautiful. Ideas don’t exist in isolation from the delivery mechanism.”
Want more? Well Stewart is not coming to Melbourne in 2007, so for Australian audiences this is the only chance to catch his stand up work for a while. To purchase 90’s Comedian go here. For more info on Stew check out his website. For our UK readers What Would Judas Do? starts January at the Bush in Shepherd’s Bush.
Many thanks to Stewart Lee